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HomeMy WebLinkAbout1998-03-17 Municipal Operations Committee MinutesMummind Operations Committee Meeting hdmnes March 17, 1998 Councilors Amending: Nch Famham, Micheal Aube, Tim Woodcock Staff Attending: Edward Barren, Erik Stumpfel, Don Winslow, Jim Ring, Arthur Stations Others Attending: Various media, Mark Plummer, Wayne Foote, Dave Lawlor Meeting convened at 5:03 pro. Don Window ow explained that the Police Department has an opportunity for a local person to corkuccatee kedng tmbehalfofthe D.ARE.Progrmm. Since1989,theprogmm has been dependent upon outside contributions to supply all the support materials for the program, which is approximately $5,000 per year. Made Plummer, representing the telemarketing tympany, did a similar fundraiser for the Police Athletic League 2 years ago and eased $19,000 with sty complaints from the public. The Police Departmmtisprohibited by lawffom long than own sobdtstion, Councilor Aube asked W. Plummer to expion the process he would be engaged in. Mr. Plummer explained and an office would be set up in the Bangor area. One Person is =played to help with the telemarketing. A driver is hived to pickup the checks, which are made out to Bangor D.ARE. Asoftballgemewillbesetup between the officers end some local celebrities. Erik Stumpfel explained that Don called him mocatly regard'mgthe Board ofEathe'recent look a fastening by City orgaru aNms. Due of the problem areas that was idensified by the Board of Ethics was fundraising by organizations such as the P.A L. where it was less than dear whether they were a City program or a separate organization. In the case of D.A.R.E, if D.AR.E. is entirely an onside organsommon, the Cry, realty has rw drat cordal over what they do with a fundraiser. On and other hand, because they me involved in the law enforcement area, if they are a City program within the City Police Department, there is a statute that applies. In tide 25, section 3702, it says that'L person may solicit Property from the general public when the property or any part of that property any way tangibly benefits or is intended to tangibly benefit law evformmera od or law enforcement agency." The definition of solicitation includes verbal or telephone requests or offers or mempts to sell advertising in publications. If D.r1RE. is an onside orgardaafion, then the City shouldn't be making a decision about what they do in the way offcialmishg. If D.ARE. is a City of Bangor program, then under the statute the City should not be doing direct anticipations for that program. Erik's personal recommendation would be that since this is a very worthwhile activity and the total dollar amount is not that high, the City consider directly funding it from the City's budget. Regardless of how they are organized, whether they are a separate corporate entity or not, there is a close association in the public mind of DARE. to the City, as a City progrem and whether or not there is a legal issue involved, there is an issue about public perception Don explained that DARE. is a program of the Police Department There is the Maine D.A E.Officer's Association, which is not involved in this particular fundmisa, and there is the National D.AR E. Officer's Association, of which Dan Frezzeg, the Bangor Officer, has been elected president. It is not a separate corporation. Councilor Woodcock connected tbat the City recently concluded the fundraising effort, the Eyes for Lives program, which was a private effort and resulted m the so lsmition of items for the Fite Department Isthereaformatthatwouldaddressthisissue9 Erilreplainedthatthe difference is dm then effort did not benefit the Police Department, they were purchased for the Fre Deputrnem This partlwlarstatuh does nm apply to that 5mdoising. Thosetmided to be oneon-one solicitations ofkWMdual businesses, wbich is somewhat different than a mass telephone solicitation. Don commented that when dime was a similar fundraiser for PAL, which is a City Program, the Attomey General's office was wmacred and thew interpretation was that as long as the police officers themselves were not engaged in do actual solicitation, they were comfortable with h. Erik pointed our that PAL does have a separate legal stmctmc, it is legally a separate entity, and ifit is net what the statute defines as alaw mfnrcavent uncommon, then it would not fall under this stature, which may be one ofthe bases for which the Attorney General gave his opinion. Councilor Aube asked about the issue tithe solicitation ofvarims homesses corning forward with donations, whuchdo go to the chibi mt, is that done through an officer?, Don explained that this was prompted form those individuals. Theyoomamedthe Police Departmentand wmvml to know ifthere was sovcething they could do to support the programs. There have been 4 or 5 orgaoinatiore that have been long term supporters. Erik's suggestion is to postpone this issues Don offered to comect the Attorney General's office again to get another imerprondoo underthis particular scenario and come back to the Commithe. The Committee agreed to table this issue until Don has the information needed. 2. UAdon on Suring andC Clearm Jim Ring updated the Committee on the cleanup efforts. Mom of the debris removal is conplw=derewswillwmimrere ulthrougbtbefraofMay Smffwarmstowntinue with the brush clean up and get it done Prim to starting the spring clearmP Program. Last year there was a Oddly sighficmn change in the spring cleanup approach and Jim feels it was well received and worked well operationally. This year, the Committee has been looking at what was don last year and there are a few changes. The Comvdttee includes representatives from Public Works, Enghectm& Cade Enforcement, Treasury and the Legal Department. Arthur Stockus explained the changes that will be made to this year's program. The dust change is that the storm debris removal, which is normally a part of spring cleanup is bang that the mdpickedup cuflecspringclearmp. Awticewtsplvbay Currently, the residents that the mrbonswthat re wordwrbvdethake dow the fimoey bot have bucket me are two licensed arhorists that are working on tree take downs. They both have bucket trucks and they are doing all the larger tree take downs. There is a tree crane coming in for the large uses that can't be handled by mutual means and there are two pulp loaders that are picking upthetreesastheyconredown. White goods will still be picked up this year Store curbside. All the other material will be brought to Public Works by the public for disposal. Councilor Aube asked what is done about the curers violators? Ed Barra otplained that when it is reported, Code Enforcement goes and and tries to determine who is responsible and they deal with it. If it is something that has been dumped and can not be tracked back to any residences, Public Works will haul it away. Until last year, mos[ of the material was picked up c rbsidn In 1996, there was a Problem because oftbevast amours ofmaterial left for pickup, labor costs ran about $140,000. By picking up only brusl5 leaves and white goods len year, labor crsm were cut down to a little over $80,000, reaching in significant savings. The overwhelming response from the public was positive Aless obvious beoeit is reduction in employee injuries oaasriug during spring cleanup. Charlie hfitchell has found that Public Works injuries during the spring cleanup period, have generally ren from 10-801/oofthe total named workers' comp claims for the City. The average for the 6 year period reviewed was 3Woo of all claims represented by Public Weeks. 4st year. the total expanses doe m injuries during dean up wasiust over 5800. The schedule for dean up will be: Unil May l continue picking up storm debris.curbside collation of white goads will begx the weak ofMay 4 mul end May 8, and drop off at Public Works will ren 5 consecuf are w«k-cods. both Saturday and Sunday beginning May 2 ending on May 31. fast year pemum were issuedto Bangor residents mal this will not flange this year. Proof of residency will he required, aid those that do not have driver's licenses will nodaa WormeNgsi uestablishingthearesidence. Onepermitatatimewillbe issued. These will be psaple inthe odce sotharwhenmnerai isbrought ors, nmthla perwt maybe obtained after load is dumped. fan year, door knockers were used. Tlds year, a mailer will be mailed to the sant poral drupe that the recycling newsletter goes to which will give all the information in more deuil than what was on the door knocker. Tlds will be mailed sometime between April 13 and 17, which gives about 2 weeks lead time. Dick Stockford from Berger Beautiful has offered to produce that newsletter. The con of printing and mailing off be approsimatdy $1,600, $1,000 less [Amar the cost of printing and distributing by head. The operation will be identical to Ima year. The mea will be well staffed, and stiff will assist in unloading veWcla. Containers volt he retied end will be hauled off as they SB up w the weekends. Coundlrr Farnham asked if there will be notice about the May 1 deadline for picking up the norm debris Anlau stated yes, it will be part of the entice going out within the nest weak to the media. 3 Dick Stackford, Director ofBarigor Beautiful, and Paul Patterson, President of the Board, updated the Committee wrBargorB®NBd. Mr. Stockford explained that Bangor Bartow sunedoww1990asafundmising CommitteeofBangm2000. Theyputtogerherthefust Crarden Slrow, with the help of numerous agencies and it was succeesfrd enough that Bangor Besmdul was; able to incorporate on its own as the local affdiam of Keep America Been thol and las meintamW that addiction to daze Bangor u the only Keep America BemtifW affiliate City in the State of Maine. Forecast to a five year plan, 3 or 4 years hes been spent getting then financial feet under than. This last year, they were able to donate $7,000 to downtown beautification through the purchase and construction of plasters, filling them with Bowers and bamiers, etc. That program is ongoing and will probably double this coming year. Bangor Besought! also supports recycling and mvrmdy has $5,000 budgeted in support of that program. Bangor Beauudi is a the point now that a l0xl2 office is becoming crowded. Tbry would like to maintain an even closer tie to the City by occupying City property if this could be done in afmmrially equitable way. Mr. Patterson feels that Bangor Beautiful would bring a link between the private sector ant the public sector to the City. They can go out and sotick funds that flee City can't. Projects are being done in conjunction with the City as well as some that have been developed on their own Bangor Beautiful would tike some office apace or land fiomthe City; specifically, the old Anirml Shelter. It's proximity is excellent for the recycling comes. Dick's association with Public Works is a mainday for Bangor Beautiful and they would like to stay close to them. For the Garden Show, 300 voluntary are used. Mr. Patterson pointed out that they have developed a youth advisory board send they, woWdlikeaplacewheretheyo ffii lhew=mtywuldwm kmdvohmtear. Bd Barrett explained that the Committee has discussed the Ardmd Shebat with Bingo Search and Rescue who will be in that building fist a limited period of time until they develop and put up their own building. At some point in the future, iffl a City does not get back into the Anhnal Controlbusmce thatbWdi mi&beavailable. Onmivterimbasis,tbereuapace evadable at City HA and Parks am d Recreation. It could be worked secured for a period of time and see what the a Wal welcome is on the Animal Control Building. Mr. Stockford mmented that Bangor BemcifW would like to be considered as uses fm City property is surveyed. Councilor Aube tealsdO the projects undertaken by Bangor Beautiful have been worthwhile to the City arW suggested that they work with staff to find a suitable place to work on projects, etc. 4. (NOTE: A complete transcript of this discussion is available in the City Solicitor's Office). The Conoid tee cautioned its review ofthis Ordinance. Items discussed included: 1. Should the Cover] adopt a regulatory approach to these businesses or should nudity in commercial establishments be prohibited? The City Solicitor was asked to prepare such a prohibition. 2. Zoning restrictions. The City Menage proposed that adult businesses be permitted in any conaneawl zone provided that the business meets the off-street parking requmements and the mhumum location reyu'nmeats of the shopping and personal service district and is not located within 500 fact ofmy residential zoning district. 3. Measuring distance. The Committee felt that any distance restrictions should be measured from my used enmsnce of a budding used for a purpose which would invoke a distance limitation. The Committee fdt that a 500' distance limilntion was acceptable, 4. Omndfathering. The Committee requested the City Solicitor to review approaches and standards used by other local governments and provide this information to the Committee, 5. Age of Employees. The Committee agreed with the proposal. That the ordinance require the commercial establishment to maintain documentation as to the age of employees and independent contnnams on sitz. There was some discussion of requiring the estabgshmerd to notify the Police Department of new employees or contractors 6. Hours of Operation. The Committee agreed to adopt the same operating hours - restrictions now in effect for liquor estabfishmems. ]. Tipping. The prohibition on ripping was discussed bm no consensus was reached. Dave Lawler addressed the Commutes in opposition to the Ordinance. Ron Stewart asked a number of questions regarding specific elements ofthe Ordinance. Wayne Forte, representing Diva's, commented on sections of the Ordinance. omaaa� n Ed Barrem Myouknowwe'vehad anori®nal draft ofan ordownedatwas immduced in February that had Srst reading and since than we have had a member of meetings and looked en it. There a re will a mrmba ofmmenainfies involved with the ordinance ata we drought it was vecessery for us to go through some of the details in this ordinance to we if we cent get a fired proposal in place with all the blanks filled in that we can work off of as we move forward Friorm thaz&ikwants to Memento a basicpolicy question and get some guidance as to how we should proceed. Solicitor Stumpf -l: A we've said before, this is a regulatory approach This says that these businesses can east in ted City ofBangm; we are going to closely regulate them make were they don't become something Wegal,aMthat is the approach that this ordinance takes. The first decision you need to make is if that is going to be your approach to these businesses. Thazi =m meffin the Coftwhrelfcando,hisadecisionfnrthe6WCouncd. There are other approaches, which could include simply a blanket prohibition of my form ofrmdlty in commercial establishments or in any public platy This is, again, the version that says these businesses coot hands in Bangor, bat we are simply going to impose regulations which prevent them from becoming illegal. Then is the basic policy decision you have w make before we evengettowfirtthepwiculassoftWsordinam gMbe. Trystwamtobringthattoyom attention, once again. FA Barrett: The options en this point are if you would Were to we something along the lines Erik is talking about, he could certainly prepare that. If you want to take a regulatory approach, maybe you want both in front of you as we proceed. If you wantto take the regulatory approach, then we need to go though this ordinance, 611 in the blanks and make some decisions as a starting point for the full warned to make final decision. Councilor Woodcock: I think that in order for the Council to he best informed we should perceive what it is that the alternative ordinance would look like. The regulatory approach in the ordinance that is put before us is premised on...hawi on legislative findings, the conclusion that this is high risk behavior, and the level of stricture here, including the natation then would enforce the ben of the certificate of occupancy, suggests a high level of concem. Therefore, the public record fiat has been established on this thus far bas evidenced a high level of public concern abom it, so we should look at both a the same time. This wouldn't precede ds Committee from taking testimony on this tonight, but at least from my perspective, it is unlikely we am: pang to concede public hearings on this proposed ordinance tonight Councilor Farobam: Can you update me on what Portland hes done? SofiultorSamrpfel: Anumberofyearaago, Portland adopted aregulamry ordinance that provided that if you had a business in Portland which reyu'ved a City license of any ked, whether it be alcohol, food & beverage, victualers, hotel, any sort of business license, and you warned to have any kind ofcode entertainment, you had to have a rude activity penult issued by the City, and there woe standards which was written into that ordinance. Included in those standards was the putubition on total nudity. The [Portland] ordinance provides for topless nudity only. That was in place and two esmbfishrtants were licensed under that orditeoe. ha 199y,the l5"Oordad amended that ordmanceo provide that after blanch 190, they would not gnu any further pemdts. Of the two businesses that were licensed, there is only one currently in existence. That business is loandfathered, does remain in announce and there is no arae[ on the grandfathering order the Portland ordinance but as of March 19W. they hang in effaM1 base total prohibition on businesses oftks type in Portland, with the exception of the one Portland does have broader licensing provisions on businesses than Bangor does. Ed Berea: Recognize it only applies to businesses that must be ficensed by the City. Diva's for esemplq a the moment bas a Certificate of Occupancy, with no direct hcmse bemuse there is no alcohol, there are no activities on the location requiring a City license. Solicitor Stumped: Yes. but in Portland, I'd have to go back and look to be sure that Portland does have broader licewwg ofbusiven es then we do. I don't know that they require a general business ficense for ell businesses, but 1 believe their licensing requirements are suuewhet broader Wan ours. Councilor Aube: So if we were to move in the area of a gr aner prolubition, we would be looking a licensing of businesses either by category or some other necbanism. Solicitor Stumpfel: In Portland, they+ve came around to it by the back door, but what they have essentially done is say no more adult enortaimment, no five nudity. In effect, than is essentially what their ordin um now provides and if that were your approach, the way you world accomplish that would be by a much shorter ordinance which would simply say either no nudity in a commercial establishment or no nudity in a public place Councilor Aube: You uses the phrase "you could annual: agrandfather provision". Solicitor Stumpfel: Yes, this ordinance has locational restrictionsofvadous kinds and what this odiravce would provide with respect to the two existing businesses is that if they don't mea those requirements, they would be allowed to cousin in the present location for a period, which in this draft is five years, and then after that they would have to comply with those Icmfional requinamm�. Ifo that Wne, they could not comply with those requirements, they would have to relocate to a location that did. In Portland, the existing businesses, the one that is there, is gradfa armed and there is no sunset so that pe ra t will not expire in Portland even though there are no new businesses for which pewits are being issued. Ed Beretta Would you litre to am something drafted along those lines? Erik will do the Councilor Aube: How do you want to proceed with this? Ed Barrett: There are a combat of issues that were tried to outline here. One of which is zoning: zones in winch such businesses would be permitted, and I have taken a shot at putting something together as a proposal for you to Odra a look at. And what this proposal would do za t0 permit adult entertaruvent businesses m any commerdd among district in the Land Development Code of the City of Bangor provided that it fust meets the off-street parking ralu'vemeats and the minimum location requirements for the shopping and personal service district. If it was a location downtown, there would have to be some buffering because the concern with downtown tends to be that these businesses are right adjacent up against everybody else and the spillover affect onto the streets, public places and adjacent property create problems an they would have to mea buffering and development standards of the slopping and personal servwes district Then the buffering, which is in the cart one and then the thud item is that it would not be located within 500 fact of any residential zoning district in the land development code, which keeps some separation between residential meas and businesses of this name Thera a proposal on zoning. Councilor Woodcock: Where did the 500 foot figure came from? Ed Barren: We talked about between 300 and IWO and l picked 500. Solicitor Stumpfel: Obviously the legislative determination that has to be made is, if they impact residential mesa, what is an appropriate separation? The cases watre seen uphold separation distances of up to 1000 fine, Ed Barrett: Oneoft rmunslw withlongerthco300istheissueofhowitlemeasured. Ifyou measure 300 feet from front door to form door, departing upon layout, you run into some potential difficulties where yea have buildings very dose to each outer end activities aromrt thosebuildings and other ermmces to those buildings. Ifyou try to move away four that way ofineusuriag life gets aImle more difficult in terms of establishing how to museum. So, 500 feet measuring from fore door to front door was the basic notion. Councilor Woodcock Thafs basically taken fom the liquor Anne, isnt it? Ed Banat: Yes, the way of measuring. Councilor Woodcock: There is nothing that would prevent the Council, is there, from using a dlffacem porthole determiner (such as) any regularly used door or any usable door? Solicitor Smmpfd: Yea, there is nothing on prevent you from deriding how that is measured. In regard to separation from revde tial zoning district, in that case, it would, probably would be appropriate to measure from the district line. Ed Barrett: We had also talked in the ordiwme about distance finuadons for other functions and the is on page 41. Efil:Wputin a number ofthings in brackets. That's what wewould consider distance from would be churches, chapels, parish houses, schools, school dormitories, juvenile shelters, ospbmuges, esmbfishments serving or selling alcohol and other with enteataimneot businesses and we would add public libraries. In terms ofdiumeM there again, looking at the 300 to 1000 fat, could be anywhere apparently Erik £bels comfortable but any of those are potential. Right? Solicitor SUnpfd: It is really up to you legislatively to decide what separation is appropriate to minimize the negative secondary, eB'ect of these businesses on surrounding uses and separational (tape inaudible). There may be different rationales for separation in each of these cases; however, for convenience it probably would be beat to have a single distance that applies to aU of [hem Councilor Aube: Including the definition of door to door. Ed Barrett Weff, on identifiable facilities,[ think Erik is right on the budding it should be measured from the nearest boundary lines to the Goat door. Comeilor Farnham: One of these I used, you had child care cemera or something like War. Is that too much, too broad or... Solicitor Simnplel: Some office drafts have hand written notes about other possible uses [bet could be separated, but Chats not in this dmfl, no. Public parks is another one which I deal MEcve is w here. care ceearem some other mdvuvices oftns type that Pve looked at, public parks and clriltl care centers. Etl Barre[ With chid core, there are a lot of them sod they move around a lot They come and go constantly. The was my thinking. Sometimes it is hard to just keep track of those. Solicitor Seraphs: Ed's comment this afternoon when we went over this issue is that most of those in the City ofBmgor are home occupations in our residential acnes and would be protected [by the proposed separation from roudemial zones]. Councilor Furniture: Some of the others I know of are located in churches and types of faclities that areal located in here anyway, Solicitor Stumpfd: On the issue of public parks, the rationale of many of these separation provisions is that you separate these uses from eras that me Geyuented by juveniles or clndrm, and public parks and playgrounds 6t within this rationale, and so some costumes of this type have included that in the list of uses that are separated horn the adult emmeimnaq an we would need you Sentence on what the final Eat should look like and the footage requitement. Councilor Aube: Any comments from the Committee? Councilor Woodcock: There are a variety of topics that we (mandible) From my own perspective and having heard a 8u amount oftesthnony on this subject and having witnessed how these Inwardness have been eelW so Br, it seems to me that porthole measurement from front door to front door is artificial, it seems more reasonable to deal with a distance winnowed that involves used envances, and how you might formulate that I guess I believe I'll look for further discussion. (ismudible) Dive's is an institimon that is quite close to a church but by the way the City measures the di&mce now, it is (more than] 300 feet from the [mein] door. The same situation could easily vast at the school if (inaudible) but I think a used entrances is a mora sensible way to begin the measure. Councilor Aube: I agree. Fd Barrett: Ok. Andthea ... lhnhations. Councilor Woodcock: I think part ofthe problem that I see here W regard to the 300 foot distance is that the rationale behind it, as I understand iS is that you want to try try to keep people, either the church or school from being commmed with this type ofbusiness and that being the case,300feet rea0y isn't that long, particularly in the downtown setting. Amore reasmabledi�woWde tobe450to500feet ThmwaWdreallybuildsomedinance so that passem-by who me on the usual route oftraffic; wouldn't be (mandible). Coumilor Aube: Ifyou take mW aceomrc the usage of churches and/or schools and different types offacillfies, the parking can be in the downtown on the street parking and requires that kind of passage. 500 last is not a long way to walk to afacility. If you fcel more comfortable with a higher number, please do. Councilor Famham: Again, as far as the tunes when the different buaioesses are operating, itdoemlapplycimeastmch? Whey schools are in session or Wmrchesare w session, moat likely this business isn't. Councilor Aube: Not necessarily, I don't think we can make that judgment. Councilor Farnham: In that respect, it doesn'treally matter what.. Councilor Aube: Certainly a lot of clenches have evening services, lam night services, weekend services, funerals, weddings things than they opmate at different times of the day. School activities. Belated to time, I think we fall to take into account the physical um of other facilities. Ed Barnett: FmdiscussionpurposmwoWdyoulikeustoputin5mfeet Councilor Aube: Yes, that would be fare. Comxdor Woodcock: We ere also dealing with the means by which(maudible)... placards, signs, marketing devices on the exterior of these buildings certainly provide a counsel, if not a (inaudible) _. other activities then we are trying to protect here. BA Barrett Grandfathering. As the draftstands now, the grandfathering provision is for five years. There are alternatives that cera be and. New York City's approach when it regulated these kinds of businesses was to provide for a one year grandfathering provision with an appeal to thew Board of Appeals to show econome bardship if a business has not had sufficient save to recover their capital expenditures. Then is one wpmscb. You (also]could look m a shorter tune [for example], three years, a Flat [lues years; so there are options there you could look at. Councilor Aube: Do we have a standards or perhaps we could acquire standards by which other nmn cipeli ies deal with that whole isare of bong able to recoup capital back. It seems to me that that would become whatever limit you pick, one year, five years, you are going to debate the vcthodology by which one is trying to make the uses that their investment has not came back. It would be very good if we could at least begin acquiring some standards Genn other local govenrawas as to how they have dealt with that. Maybe you have aheady Erik We dual sed to Bo overthem tonight, but ([(funk that is a key wmicanod. Solichor Saumpfel: The moat prominent one was the one in New York City which was the one year grandfathering provision with the fight of appeal in bardship [cases]. Councilor Aube: So there was legislative approval of this standard. Solicitor Smmpfel: And then approval by the courts. Certainly in those cases, down there the imestmeots in these facilities in New York City was a green deal mare substantial then up here; of worse the cash flow probably is as well. lust on that point in terms of the Gdornown available to you, we do haw two eaebhshmeme and what wetre been able to put in front of you is that the owner of the building occupied by Diva's, did do some improvements and Ms. Cormier made other improvements. The permits which were taken out for that work represent approaimaxly, $29,0011 worth of work. W. Cormier, a[ the last mac ing, said she would provide you on addaional wformation on her out-of-pocket expenses wlnch would not be amounted for in the Citys construction permits [and] building permits. Wehavealreceivedthstinfnmationyet. That's the order ofthe scale of the investment that would were to have been made here in Bangor. Ed Barrett: Would you like Erik to do some more work on that and give you some alternative approaches... Councilor Aube/C000cilor WoodcockInaudible Fire Comndttce directed Erik get information on the standards of other local govemmans than have faced this issue.] Ed Barrett: Another issue that came up was the the requlremen[ to document the age of employees. The original draft had than information coming to the Police Department I befieve it might bejust as effective and easier for us to have them maintain that on Funguses end be available to police and cede enforcement personnel to avoid issues of this documentation becoming a matter of public record and potential problems that could arise Him that. Solicitor Stmupfed; I have Mr. Fcote's comments that were submitted to you in writing on that point [m Mr. Foote's recommended antMmaia to the draft ordinance]. There was a periodic inspection mmidtle, and l would disagree with that aspect of it. Those Has ought to be open for inspections a all times. He terms of the documentation required, there ought to be some reliable basis to verify the age of the employees. That may be a birth certificate maintained on file athe aablishmert with a photo m or some other public document which refiatsmeage ofthepercun. I'm rsot wedded to the concept ofproviding asocial security number, just whatever works to verify the age. Councilor Woodcock: There me two issues that I can see. One is if we agree to go forwmd with a process by which the information was kept on the premises, there would have to be a mandatory ramification wriuiranent, presumably whenever anyone new joined the establishment so Had the Police Department would haw the opportunity to verify. The risk that is trying to be controlled is the implication of minors which traditionally has been considered an mneme contain for humanity as a whole. lithe process were set up m that these were only occasional, sporadic reviews office records, presumably someane could come in as a minor, be employed for a substantial period of time and depart without anyone ever knowing. There would haw in be some kind of a notice requ'vemem there l would think if day kept the records an premises. As for the sound security number, it is a national identifier and h isaveryarcoaneway inmost cacesto determine who is who. It maybe that there are some restrictions restudied on the use of that, ben they already are being used by a law enforcement agency. Presumably those restrictions are already in place. Solicitor Stumpfel: Only to the extent there is an ongoing investigation. If the information is simply on file, and is not part of a criminal imeatigation than it is subject to public disclosure under the Freedom ofAress Act and in fact Mr. Foote can tell us a lot about that since he's one of the people who's bad problems with us or that isme in the pas. Councilor Woolsack: Is it within the purview of the emit hold" in waive those restrictions? Solicitor Stanpfel: No, I'm not talking Federal Freedom of Access; the Maine Freedom of Access statute. If we have a record ova there and it is not part of any ongoing criminal investigation, h is a public document and we do have to release it and we can't create a protection for that record unless it is pmt of crhmnal investigation. Councilor Woodcock: In other words, if we could require a social security number then.... Solicitor Stuml£el: ifwe had a document that requested than, yes. At least far as Maine law goes, we would have to disclose that to anyone who made the request; [who requested] the document. Couvdlor Woodcock:I haven't dealt the ares of employment law for years, On virtually every application I've see. sorceone puts in fixer swial saauiy number so I don't know why the City ofIs ngor would be denied the iMormation that in this stme every singhe employee is required to provide to every single employer. This is, the theory behind this again is that we we trying to keep minora from entering into, a a very young age, this kind of activity so I don't ase a strong argument for cot requiring a social security number. Counalor Aube: How do you prevent the establishment having independent contractors and not employees? Solicitor Smmpfd: That was part of the cancan m drafting this; provision. The policy is going to be that an oro under 18 can work there. I think we beard testimony last time that many of the wnployms are not employers of the establishment, many of the dancers me not employers offs¢establishment, they came through and work f tips. They file than ownW- 24and W4s and there is no existing reporting that goes on so them is no legal requirement from any source Nan would farce the owner of the business to verify the no of the employees. At Oast not for the contract daumm that come through. If the policy is geeing W be that an ave under IS can work in these places, that of A you need to impose a verification requirement on the business ita dfand than have some mems N make sure that that is being done. ]tight now, Syou go lo one oflhm businesses, you can ask, but there's wdmg which says you really have cheek to make sure the information given is accurate. Fd Barrett: The definition of person employed is in Hca canting draft. Solicitor Stumpfd: That was an essential concem in way it was drafted. Ed Barrett The other blavlcthat is in the ordinance is hours of operation. What are the he= ofoperatim in liquor establishments? I thunk it is 1:00 a.m. M a getting pool, Nat's am same to take would be to make it consistent with liquor establisbmmta Does that sound reasonable? Okay. Solicitor Smmpfel:Iathaeamomwglouryouwmwwtinaewell? 9:00am.,8:00a.m.? Ed Barrett: Is Here a rule on liquor establishments? Solicitor Stumpfsi: No Councilor Farnham: I think they are 11:00 am. to 100 a.m. Councilor Aube: Why don't we research that. The current standard with respect to liquor hoarsen, boors ofoperetlon, how it effects Sunday establishments and holiday% elections, etc. Solicitor Sampled: Again, 1 wild remind you in Portland when they were licensing Nese businesses, the ordinance did rant allow fWl nudity and this ordi mare Ins an provrvon which Prohibits full nudity so if that is an issue for you, that would need to be written nen this ordinance. Councilor Faction: The Portland ordinance allows alcohol, nigh? Solicitor Smmpfel: Yes, it did, when they were livening establishments. Solicitor Stuar l: One of the issues Mr. Foote raised in his written materials was the... concerns about the no tipping role. You might ask fm his further comments on that. Councilor Farnham: Are all business rombed to pay m ummn wage, a base wage and not necessarily.. when more is tipping... Solicitor Stumpfel: I really have not looked into how the MS...how the minimum wage law applies to these establishments. Ed Barrett: I know there are exceptions for certain kinds of occupations, where you dou t have to pay the obsolete minimum wage, you can pay less so long as tips are declared and included as part of the hourly wvryeosation, but I don't know in this case, what the rule is. Condor Woodcock: We dont t have commands Wear comment; from Mr. Foote in writing on the tipping issue? hdr. Foote: You have the hills] comments. I wasn't aware that the Council was interested in funnier comment on that. Councilor Woodcock: Ijust wanted to make sure that we have what we have. Mr. Foote: I think my written comments suggest changes to 98-117. Councilor Woodcock: Just so the record is clear, that new, voice that has joined is that of Wayne Foote, who is acting as Counsel for Diva's. Correct? W. Foote: That's correct. Solicitor Stemplel: I do want to note one small item for you on page 43, paragraph g, there is a provision that performers wgl rat engage in sexual acts or sextal contact and the definition referred to is in the criminal code. I would like to change that to delete those and say"seaal conduet" end refemcce the definition is the City's ordinances. The criminal code definition contains references to second gratification. Gven the district court's meant definition of prostitution in Maine, you don't want to create a defense than "I only did it for the money, therefore it was legal". Our ordnance definition of sexual conduct does not include that language. Councilor Woodcock: I don't went to suggest tlmt I'm not curious to get more information on this. I'm not on this Committee and I didn't plan to come In this Committee hearing and I can't stay much longer, but I guess I would suggest tIris, I know them is a mom fidl of people, all of whom wan to comment at some point on this. This is a clearly a preliminary meeting and we are flagging issues to be discussed. Ed Barrett: I was going to briefly talk about where... Erik and I talked some today about where we were going to go with this. We do not sot feel that it going to be ready to come backatthe next Councilmeeting, for acoupleofreasons. Weveedtoredrefth,getitina more fndfnnaust, get it out to people so they get a chance to look 9 it. We probably warn to sit down with scarce of this and look an maps, erring things, see what we own ace in trams of me real world not there so we probably be looking at not bringing this back to the Council until themeefing after the nest cnF which wouldbe April 13th, at the soonest. We are ram in any huge time pressure. Councilor Woodcock: For Nose folks who came here today, keeping that in came, we have flaggedemnnber ofumeahce Naz ane ciemly goingm ergine further conideratiora There are, as you are all becoming quite familiar, there ere a couple of ways to make your views (mown. Yen can subrmt them in writing and they walk be made a part of the record. You can offer and comment and you can do both. Ifyou have suggestions, feel free to submit Nem be the Committee and they will be taken up along with my additional work does by the City staff. Councilor Aube: I think it is the acme of the Conammes thin we talked last time that we warm tolookmthisfmmawmpre wen po tofviewsowedon'twmttowhanything. The more standards, clarification oflanglage, the better understanding we have with respect to zoning maps, everything else the City has. This is the process we will be engaged in, Hat's why want to make sure for the people here that even though we may be saying April 13th tithe day that may occur, it may not occur on that data because we may not have completed our work through this process. Councilor Famham: Is there a way to take these two establishments we have now and given the zoning changes that were made the other night, is there away to say here is the situation now acid here are the options. 10 Ed Barrett: That is one of the things that we could do, is take a look... and 1 don't know if were could identify all of the options, be we certainly could identify general areas where there most likely wouldn't be a problem. Councilor Farnham: So a person could look at it and say here's what is excluded and this is how the City would look if nacre options are in place. Ed Bazett[: Yes, it is passible, generally. In a general some: and we could look e, we know what zones would be allowed and it would be a matter of backing out those that are within 500 feet of a residential area, then looking an those older zones in terms of what other facilities are in the area that might push than away. We can do some of that. Again, I'm not going to say that we'll have every possible site in the City identified, but we can certaiPly look at the areas where it appears that it might be possible. Councilor Aube: Are there my public comments at this point in time? Identify yourself for the record please. lvh. Chairman end Committee members, my name is Dave Uwhr. I own the property a the Diva's... I am a citizen of the United Stmes and of the Some of Maine. I am also a small businessman and a Bangor taxpayer doing business in Bangor as Dave's Movies, Dave's Video on Hammond Strom. I've been doing business in Bumpar for over 20 years. I also own the building at State Street known as Diva's leased to Diane Cormier. The reason for my appearance here tonight is to expressly oppose the stand taken by you, Mr. Woodcock, attempting to close down Diva's through the introduction of various amendments to City laws which would make Diva's unable to freedom in a capacity of stop [ease or an exotic dance establishment. My concern encompasses the evergowing expansion of government restraints on private individuals, the suppression of a person's fight to two a business, By this, I mems, as long m an exotic dance club keeps its activities within the coMmes of its ower establishment and does not disnub my other business, church, bystanders or pmeers-by, it should be in an way minsidxted or cumulated by mos ofa vigilante committee who attempt to impose thew moral standards on others with complete disregard to the Fust Amendment rigim of the United States Coadi ution of free expression. At last Wednesday's meeting, Mr. Woodcock, you heard from representatives of various churches, speaking w opposmmto Dlva'a Yeo also heard from the owner ofob a s, Diane Cormier, and her supporters, dmcem, who, as can be expected, wished to keep Diva's operating to preserve their own Iifestyly eta one examen to them by the church or City. Each side presented a strong case. I fret the since Diva's has been targeted by you, Mr. Woodcock, only one side will be considered m having the stronger case, your own and that ofchmrL representatives who offered a m&M bags of reasons for warning to close the club. The church or religious right wing, has gained Divas as a club to which men are attracted sexually and sexual stimulus are provided which ultimately me not AdMod, thereby leaving the male in astate of mutual only to leave the establishment to prey on unfortunate women. Divas hes beer operating for four months, yet not one coming complaint has been brought against a Diva's customer who left this premises to enough rape or arty, other vicious or among angles on anyone. Neither have any complaints been substantiated showing that the police have had to do anything with any belligerent patron at Diva's. The same kind of reasoning could be applied to those who rent adult movies or purchase adult magazines, yet, psychologists have proven that consumers of such entmtainmmrc are not given to violent acts. A majority of those timing adult movies from my sores are considered fere upstanding community chizeeir As it was pouted out last week, there are few Jany magazine racks within the Ginger Bangor region that are not swamped with unpinning; i dribrt women in either semi in [a] state of frill nudity, yet neither you nor the religious righs considered this prim when it was presented, preferring to keep Diva's as the main thrust of your attack Your censorship comminm is quick to attack Diva's, yet net one word was uttered about the vagi -nude illustration of a snip tense dancer advertised in the Bagger Daily News, the most fimws stripper of all, Gypsy Rose Lee for the show Gypsy, for the show Gypsy which was being presented, on, less at Barger High School, a school presaging a show that glorifies the queen of strippers Gypsy Rose Lee. According to Abele Ablated, who wrote a review of the show he Monday's March 9 edition of the Bangor Daily News "the real glory now in the Ime up of grippers and a (inaudible) less house, overflowing with 50 (inaudible). Leslie Michell, Stacy Rmae, Stephaae Hubs Reamed up the stmewith'you gotta get a g'umack.' Notordy weer they gutsy dahcros and singers, but they had the audience roaring with appsemiatlom for the high spirited bump and gr'ud ams" Atyour meeting lag week, some religious right wing women defined Divas as an establishment Out demeans women, a place where women are made to fed weak and second class yet right here m the Bangor Daily News, the same paper that held similar thoughts editorial, we haw a headline screaming' Bangor Community Theatre's Gypsy Belongs to the Women." (Inaudible) enthusiasm for the show, spills over ea she states'Yhey wmewity, talented and vivadous." "Eztramcdngoeato PatButtonfor havingsomuchfunwiththe aromatic outfits." Plesembearm mind, the wifteris Borman, this is ho male cl mvinist pig writing this gory. It is a woman that left little doubt that she thoroughly enjoyed ashow with hundreds of others, which depicts Gypsy Rose Lee, a stripper, the meet famous of ab. Area men and women exercise their First Amendment rights when atmding a show which glorifies the art of striptease. An art thin has been with civiEndion since the garden of Eder. These people examine the same sights of freedom of expression which individuals do when they buy an adult matioune or rent an adult movie. I am in the business of raising videos of all kinds, yen if I were to rely on rentals of say Swiss Family Robinson, my business wouldn't exist. After housing and reading accounts of last week's meeting I an ca emely worried that some of the rights guaranteed by the Constitution of the United States and the State ofMave may be in jeopardy by your ovesxeshms; attempt to sande these rights Mr. Woodcock. I was especially covicersed that you have taken it upon yourself to search the radio copy that was used by Diva's, demanding that a copy of the commercial be preseaded to you as quickly as possible. What right do you have, as a private citizen, to demand that advertising copy by censored by you or you ming in your capacity as Mayor of the City of Bangor? What right do Orriogmn residents and other out of Oven residents have to demand that Diva's be closed because they fed it demesne women? And by what right do tan -taxable churches, the same that demand thin no traffic be allowed to pass that church, have to demand that a taxpaying business, such as Diva's be closed? Who churchcswnvene oma a week and thea only when Diva's is closed? The sane holds tree for the businessmen who claimed Diva's disrupts business, how can this be when the complairmm is closed at might? Ihaveimeardtlousands ofdo0ars renovating the buddingwhich holds Diva's. Thebuildiog was brought We full compliance with the City building and Bre codes, so it is a completely restored history d building. I had to based four Boors ofspriNder systems, new wiadows, plu nbing wiring aroof Boors stairways, outside doors, fire escape, sandblast oil the brick in and out, I wart M interrupt this reading just for a minute, he said $29,000. I have the figures but I don't due add these up. If you put in four Boors of sprinkler system, you've increased itby$9,000(meudible). It is a completely new building with the exception afoot wonder wells. Code Enhancement was awme six months prior ria Diane Comfier was going to apply for a permit to operate her business and they indicated that they would issue her a permit once the building became in full compliance with the City codes. It is within U mmpiia ce ofthe Gty code, City of Bangor's Bre and code mdvonce. It also produces tax revenue for the City of Bangor and the dame club is Belly protected by security guards who screen admittance, police the outside area, perhaps a check of City police records would show that there are more calls to merry City night clubs whoa the disturbances are out of hard necessitating the call for police backup. I attempted to lease or sell the budding for one year before Diane Consider approached me about leasing the Noting and 1 talked m the Bangor Hyden to we if they bad any interest in offices. Iweot door to door dourdonvn m see if my small businesses wanted space to lease. I offered owner financing. I talked with Northeast Divers, the (inaudible), travel agents and marymorewithwreadoa Ager edausdng maurpoe to find[otherl tenors Por the budding IChecked the roferevices ofMs. Cormier and leased the building to her. I haven't regretted the decision. In f months since she has leased the budding, she has been an excellent terant and a businesswoman. In closing 1 would hire to ask you Mr. Woodcock, and other members of this Committee, to consider this, why after four months of successful problem -Bee operation are you, Mr. Woodcock, ateapfing to force yaw own personal ideology on the rest of the citizens of the Some ofMaine and the United States, aided and abetted by people who share beliefs that they have the power to cermor, abridge the individual rights of ordinary people? The City of Barger is placeofcommacq comprised ofuverei ]urge and small business then attract all types ofomminus. These businesses are what makes Bangor a unique place to Live. Thank you for your patience, good night. Councilor Woodcock Ifi might address those comments, since most of them are d"vected at me personally. I do happen this year to be the Chairman... Mr. Lawler: You'll have to mouse me, I have to leave Councilor Aube: Let the record show that W. Lawler has left the premises. Councilor Woodcock would like m make some comments, Councilor Woodcock: After having made ell those comments personally, he'B have to wait and read It in the paper, I guest But, I do happen to be the Chairman of ftis City Cowell this year, and ire City Council, as Ijust heard these commands from W. Lawler, is not the body that I thought it was, in fact, it's been termed a vigilante committee. I don't think most citizens of this City recogn're the City Caused as a vigilante committee, we've had exhaustive hearings an this, well have more. Everybody will have a chance to have his or her say. The questions about the Hirst Amendmvv, you womat assured that my ordineure enacted by the City will respect the contours of the Fust Amendment. It is not in the imerest of this Council to enact an ordinance that is unconstitutional and unenforceable. With respect in the radio safe, than; was no effort to censor a radio tape. The radio advertisement had representations onhwhichwewerstr3mStodocument. WewereasldngforthecoopemtimofDiva'aso that we would know what the tapesaid. Asher as l lmow, we dun't have it yet, but tem waa in the (merest of =man*, for am own satisfaction, a valuation aecowt of what the advertisement said. There was phrasing and in the radio advertisement that suggested at least the possibility of entertainment which already violated the standing ordinances of the City. We accepted testromw an that subject, but to characterize tem request as censorship, is to distort it beyond recognition. It is in the nature of a represwative body, such as the City Council, to accept public comment. Bangor is a large City in a largely rural man. 'There are many people who We outside tlu: City who have an imerwt in what they consider to be the well-being of the City. We have had testimony from people from Orono, we've had testimony from people from Oringrun, we've had tesfimony from ammmne from Augusta. It would be, in my view, ardi- democmtic and and -representative to tell people, irrespective of what Neu position may be, that bemuse they are not residents of the City of Bangor, their views are not worth hearing or day have an standing to present those views m flue City Council. W. Lawler seems to be suggesting, ironically, as a resident of Element that we shouldn't be emenaining the views of people who live outside the City. Irejem that, We me a host community for a large area and people outside us perceive us in ways which are important to us. So that testimony will continue to be allowed and if anyone has my objection to that, they can put then objection an the record. I do not distinguish for purposes of trying to ascertain whether something is inciseinterestofNecommumtymnotwhmh itisatmnbleornm-ter ble Wity. There church is non-taxable, does not diminish its voice, nor should it increase its voice. That'sa Shia dichotomy that hfr. Lawler is suggesting and we I will ant respect So, Nin, from any perspective, and I'm not the Chairman of this Committee, but I not the Chairman of the 14 Council this process should condom, h is a fact gathering process and people will have their opportmhy to comment, irrespative ofwhem they live or whether they belong to taxable or non-taxable entities. Couvdlor Aube'. Thankyou. IstmeaMdwfta iflmay.Acoupkofitemx Tobuild on what Councilor Woodcock is saying ell of you have been present a this subcommittee meeting for a number of occasions, marry of you. You've been present a tie Council mwings, they are an open Process, eveuyone u albwed to speak We take testimony. We've in fact, Councilor Woodcock encouraged, through this meeting tonigin, those ofyou who have something else to say, to put that in writing or suggest it to us at this Commume or a future Committee That process remains open. The other ding l take offease to what Mr. I.awler has said is through these proceedings, I would hope none of us would begin to chmameuise somcone's perspective and views as right wing or heft wing or anything other than that is cher view. Because once we wart getting into the name calling situation, we've lost the perspective of trying to understand where that person, as an individual, is coming Goo Iwom to assure you that as ohs = of this subcommittee, the Municipal Operations, we will respect your views from where you are coming from and that is foe. We may disagrs with k but you will have a right to be beard and we will not make a commerat as to where those views are coming from as he whether there is a political bias or morality suggested by your commence. The thhdthing l wanted to say is we have eight members of the City Council and to suggest that this is Councilor Woodcock's agenda to move this forward, it is not He is our Chew working through this process with us and I take gest exception that f as one vote have the game type of vote that Cummins Woodcock has or Compeller Famhan We will vote our conscience and we will vote the way we feel is righs or wrong as was evidenced at the vote last week and that's how these proceedings will coraime. They will be comprehensive. We will get the facts, we will get the information, we will make dommosw They may not satisfy everyone, but they are the ones that we will do in line collative best interest of this community as we see what it is today and what we hope it isfmtomortow. Arothmeanyotbercemanents'l Yerein,pleasecomeforwudendetateyom name for the record. My name upon Stewart. 1 am a resident ofMilf end. smrtalrta'•Lv.7 PIRIi':ld!MtT-. Mr. Stewart: I had bcen a resident of Bamon for more than 30 years. I have always considered myceYapart ofthe Bavgorcommmrdty and I appreciate the fact that it is open and that people in the gazer community have a gay because I think it affats everyone involved. I do take exception, I'd Wee to Of fust, some ofthe things that Mr Uwlerjum said. My impmeeionjuginthe¢meting I'vebmwish Cmndlor Woodcockisamanofhdegdty. I may not agree with all your views. The only criticism possible, as a Chair ofthe meeting, you may not have come sense as totally objective to a particular issue jug in the way that Wualdrousonteofthepeoplegivingtestimony. Questioning in depth more people ofone side Man amthn', but that's an impression Take it for what it is worth. Regarding the tapes, would you agree, though; at this point, that the idea whether or not a private dance is mentioned is pretty much a moot point; if we did describe what's taking place. What may have been rekrted to as a private dance at Diva's or at Deb's is not an illegal activity so it doesn't really matter what was..are we mm looking for that tape or is does [het really matter to you now? Councilor Woodcock: The tape, I don't believe bas been produced. We have extensive testimony on the term, hfr. Stewart: Right; but is that pretty much settled.. or is that still an issue?. Councilm Woodcock: Wed IgueAlwouhhheaveitupto Diva's. Iftheywasamproduce the tape, we would make it part of the record. I stili don't remember the phraseology. Despite my advancing years, I do awssionalty listen to WTOS he the hopes they play something I recognize and that's how I happened to hear it twin. Mr. Stewart: I don't want to speak at length here. I hope I'll get an opportunity at some other.._ Cmumlor Aube: I.et's"y topmwnalimtheconnnmrtsandlo'stryto getto the...ifthere are specific concepts or issues that we need to address. INAUDIBLE (SEVERAL SPEAKING AT ONCE) htr. Stewart: The Point that Counolm FarMam brought up Idenk it is very usefid that if you are approaching zoning we Several an idea ofwbere you would like these places to be as an alternative or u the ides, in theory, you could wee where they shouldn't be within IWO yards Of mailbox and zone Nem not ofthe City or did Asneone have in mind some types of areas? Councilor Farnham: That was what I was getting at. Fd Barrett: What we have listed here is and what we ere going to do is take a look at the criteria we've proposed hue and We identity particular distances. Mr. Stumpfeh: Just a comnrla[ unties ifl maY onihaz lett Che'v. Ifthe Council adopts a regulatory appmech with respect to Nese busveases that imposes zoning rarnm lora on them, more restrictions must leave some mss in the City where they can legally locate. Councilor Aube: & opposed to the prohibition? hfr Stumpfel: Righrt,you ='I use zoning as a prom to prohibit them. There most be at lean some areas where they we legally Mowed to locate. Mr.Stewart: Thank you, that answered my question. Regarding hours, just to mention, you have settled al 1: W a.m. Just to point out that there are licensed liquor establishments that do stay open past lbo am without serving alcohol, where alcohol isn't served. I'm not sure Ifthat's... RA Barnett: We have a separate ordinance for bottle clubs. I don't believe we have any current bottle clubs. Mr. Stewart: We have in the past. I know places that have stayed open. P.d BarreR: Yesbutthatwasiaviolatwnoftlsembs. I believe that has been communicated to thoseestablislvnents. Iftheywish to stay opera they must be licensed w a bottle club or have some land of.... as I recall. Mr. Stewart: One question. When this is presented for a vote, will tbe various phos of the ordiwrce be voted up or down or is it the whole tiring in tong? FA Barren: The whole thingintend, but it is suljct to amendment on the floor prior to fired action. Mr. Stewart I don't know ifthis isjust something N the way h was phrased by the Bangor Daily News taLLvffi about net arlhaing to the Council sWn4nnems would (maudible) end this violation. The minimum fine would be $500 for each offense and a ficenacl establishment would lose ifs certificate of occupancy, but they are not a licensed establishment, not even am ntly. Mr. Stumpfel:. The word license is probably inappropriate. What the draft provides is that in addition to the monetary parables, if you violate the ordinance, you lose your certificate of occupancy for an aduk entutaimnmt business so in ather words, any violation would shut you down. W. Stewart: It's a one strike rule. Is that modifiable? Ed Barrett It can he changed by the Council... Cousagor Aube: Nothing bas been set. Be very clear, we are still in the process of trying 0 finalize a working document. W. Stewart: I was just suggesting you've got... man fines have, this came up at the but mra ing ranges. Councilor Aube: Right, we are looking at that 17 Mr. Stewart: And, I don't know ffthat is something we automatically, especially if we .... vecessmily have no intent to violate the ondineuce. That's all I have. Thank you. Councilor Aube: Thank you. Any other comments. Erik Smunptbl: I just want to make one basic point in response to some of W. Lawler's comments. As a City Comrdl, you are the legislative body for the City of Bangor and as the City's legislative body, you can not only express, but you can protect the morels of the City; the City's moral values. That is the police powerr net is the most fundamental power of government and it is the power of government without which rights would not exist because name would not be a government to protect them. So the notion that morality but an place in what you are doing is me valid, and the notion that individual speakers who appear before you are barred nom speaking on public issues if their positions are informed by thew moral views is also, ftsal( a position that is cwmary to the Fust Amendment tradition that we have of protecting the individual's views. Councilor Aube: Thankyou. Any othwimms. Wayne Foote, representing Diva's: Mr.Smmpfel's cmnmaa suggested that I bring it up. N looking a your legislative findings, in section 1, subsection B, you talk about nbe types of rude entertainment regulated by the ordinance consist of lewd exhibitions that are patently offensive to a large majority ofna residents of Out City of Bangor" and I wanted to comment on that. I've made the comment a couple of times that the Council ficemses and accepts a franchise fee form the Playboy Channel; that mere are, as Mr. Lawler pointed an, Nae was some substance to what he had to say about the types of entertainment that are named by People regardless of whether you felt there was some improper ad homivin comment; and I hunk that this may be going beyoed what the great majority of the citizens of Bangor fed in tens of the type of entertainment Nude dancing clearly, lepreemt andlefactamuch more graphically samal enartdvmevt is presem in activities licensed and franchised by the City of Burger, [and] in au the video stores in the City of Bangor or virtually all the video mores in the City ofBvgor and an this is nos as has been suggested but, somehow beyond the pale ofcomduct Whether Nae are concerns with associated behavior with minors, Ithink it's one thing and Diva's has agreed that that is a valid point as well, but to suggest that this conduct is somehow beyond pale, is incorrect. Councilor Aube: Certainly, I'll to you as Council argue some of the finer points but as one individual I ford a very, distinct ddlixeree between my right as an individual to go and septum, rem, protons a movie and/or magannns or to subscribe to the Playboy Channel in my home, a opposed to a public facility in which that entertainment takes place. I think that is a very, very, in my, mired, important distinction between the two types of activities and so yes, those establishments do occur in the City as they do many other plarew but they are much more private and they are much more driven by an individual's activity as opposed to a sense of M community and rradtiples of people. 1 think you've made your pont, but at least in my mind, I see a very strong distinction. Mr. Foote: Ijustwanted, ifl rawpond out, that this particular section doesn't talk about the fact drat it is live... but we're talking aboutjust the type of conduct itself and I think there's a difference and Ithia :Mr. Stumpfel will recognize than this particular phrase is a buu word for obscenity. Tbis is a legal pbram, or buzz word patently offensive to the great majority of the wnunurdty becovKa obscure conduct and it puts it outside the pale of First Amendmad protection but l think that's a very serious distinction wheduar we are looking at the condum Itseifversus time, place and roamer, may do something else again. Solicitor Stumpfel: That is a fundatnemal issue you are going to have to address. P you adopt a regulatory approach or do you think that them businesses as a whale violate conmmdty standards and are engaged in obscenity? This particular legislative fading, if you Bad it not to be the case, ran be amended out, but you are the judge of what the oomnmvity standards are have in Bangor, Maine in your role as the City's legislative body, m you'll have W evaluate what you know about these businesses and make the decision whether that does or does not violate community standards. Mr. Poore: AM the only thing I ask is that you represent ell of us. Councilor Aube: Thank you Mr. Foote. Any other comments? No. A motion to adjourn would be in order. [Motion was made and seconded. Mating adjourned.] 19