HomeMy WebLinkAbout2004-09-14 Government Operations Committee Minutes � GOVERNMENT OPERATIONS COMMITTEE
MINUTES
September 14, 2004
Councilors Present: Richard Greene, Peter D'Errico, Anne Allen, Dan Tremble
Staff Present: Bob Farrar, Frank Comeau, Brian Enman, Norm Heitmann
Others Present: Golf Concessionaires Jeff and Tina Murdy, Dawn Gagnon �
The meeting convened at 5:00 p.m.
1. Consideration of Beer Sales on Bangor Municipal Golf Course Grounds
Councilor Greene stated that the state passed legislation allowing beer sales to
golfers on golf courses, however, city code does not allow beer sales at the
municipal golf course. The current concessionaires are trying to get permission to
� allow for beer sales at the municipal golf course. Councilor Greene introduced
Brian Enman to speak.
Brian Enman was asked to do a pros vs. cons list of selling beer at the golf
course. One positive would be to allow the concessionaires to make more money
on the golf course. Brian Enman expressed his opinion is that the best place for
beer is not on the golf course, but in the clubhouse when the golfers are done
golfing. There are a number of tournaments when the clubhouse is closed to the
general public and perhaps the beer sales could be limited to tournaments like
that. Brian Enman thinks that there could be problems that could arise, because
some people could end up having "too many"and then it falls on the city staff.
Brian Enman expressed that he is not in favor of general sales on the golf
course, but he would be supportive of beer sales for private tournaments.
Councilor D'Errico inquired about current beer/ liquor sales in the restaurant. Jeff
Murdy responded that beer and liquor are currently being sold in the restaurant
but that the beer and liquor must be consumed in the restaurant or on the deck.
Councilor Greene asked if Tina or Jeff Murdy would like to speak about this.
Jeff Murdy did speak. The Murdys are interested in getting approval from the
council to sell beer on the Golf Course though they intend to work with Brian
• Enman as to when the sales would be allowed. Their main goal is to get the
� approval up front, then to determine when and how beer sales would be
appropriate. Had talked about some weekend sales at the hot dog stand, etc.
They aren't intending to drive around the course and "push"the beer, but they
want to be able to sell it to golfers as they come to the concession stand. Would
like to work with the Golf Course and the Council to make it work for everybody.
Jeff Murdy addressed the issue of liability and mentions that the sales would be
closely monitored, just as they are in the restaurant.
Councilor Allen asked if the beer is being sold as the golfers are playing their
game of golf. Murdy answered, "yes" and mentioned that most golf courses have
carts that drive around and offer sales of water, juice, beer, etc.
Heitmann mentioned that Maine was one of three states that had banned this
completely, now that Maine has passed it there are two remaining. There are a
number of golf courses in the state that are currently looking in to beer sales. He
went on to mention a few of them including Penobscot Valley is selling it a
concession stand, outer Hermon is looking into it. Portland has a city ordinance
against it and they are not making any changes there.
Mayor Tremble agrees with Brian Enman that beer sales should be added on a
trial basis for a year for tournaments, etc. He doesn't favor opening sales up for
everyday, but to try weekends and tournaments. Mayor Tremble went on to
� mention why the governor said that he signed this bill. That was because the
resorts were telling him that they were losing business to other resorts in New
England that allowed it. Mayor Tremble thinks that there are certainly other
resorts in the area looking into this and would be concerned about losing
business to these other resorts in the area if it was not allowed at this golf
course. Mayor Tremble thinks that if it were limited to tournaments then it would
be a good idea. He also mentioned that if beer sales are prohibited that even
though it's not allowed people may bring their own beer on the golf course and
it's even more of a liability.
Councilor Allen asked if it is better to offer these sales from a stationary point as
opposed to a cart should these sales be allowed. Tina Murdy stated that she is
not sure that that's what the state agreed on. It was her understanding that it
was to be on a cart, and is unsure as to how Penobscot Valley is doing it unless
they have a special kind of license. If there is a stationary facility then there has
to be running water, bathrooms, etc. Allen questions what the actual law is. The
law states that it must be mobile unit. City council can approve a stationary place
for sales of beer. Councilor Greene deferred to City Solicitor Norm Heitmann.
Norm Heitmann stated that he does not know how Penobscot Valley does either
because the law clearly states cart. Unless they have a cart that doesn't move
that has a cooler in the back of the cart. The state law requires that other than a
� cart that beer be in the concession area. Concession area may be able to be
� more than one building. If the state were willing to define two separate buildings
as the concession area then you would have alcohol and food, etc in the same
building, but then you would be required to provide bathroom facilities, etc. So,
if this is something that is being considered then he would like to know how
- Penobscot Valley did it. But at the very least take a golf cart and park it on the
course.
Councilor D'Errico asked that according to what Mayor Tremble said as far as
being limited to just tournaments, how many days of the year would that be?
Enman responded that the Golf course would be closed 18-20 days during the
course of the year where the golf course is closed for a tournament.
Councilor D'Errico confirms that that is what they want to limit it to for the first
year and then if the second year they would want to take it a step further?
. Enman answered, "perhaps".
Tina Murdy addressed that the state law states that if anyone is caught drinking
alcohol outside of the allowed areas then she will lose her liquor license, even if
someone brings their own beer to the course. ]eff Murdy added that there are in
fact people who are bringing their own beer and so, not only are they at risk for
losing their license, but they are missing a chance to make some money.
� The Murdys would like to at least try tournaments and weekends and state that
; they are concerned too, if they see that it is not working they are just as
concerned and would be willing to shut it down.
Heitmann mentioned that there are certain rules that would be difficult to
enforce, such as the person driving the golf cart could not drink beer, but
everybody else on the cart can.
Councilor Greene asked about the issue of licensing and wondered if there was a
way for the Murdys to code the bottles or cans to prove that they are from them,
not being brought onto the course by someone else?The Murdys said that they
would probably either pour it into a cup or use some sort of plastic bottle.
Councilor Greene confirms that this would be a way to determine that this was
sold by the Murdys and not brought on the course so that the Murdys could
protect their license.
Councilor Allen asked if the golfers stop the game and have their beer, or if they
stop get the beer and continue on? JefF Murdy answered that they continue with
their game, much like picking up a bottle of water to get through the game, etc.
Council approved of trial basis of beer sales for a year, limiting the sales to
� tournaments and weekends, etc as discussed. A year from now they can
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, reassess this issue, Councilor Greene stated that he would like to see some sort
of tracking report to see how this effected the sales, etc.
2. Review of Year-end Public Swimming Pool Attendance and Revenue
Figures
Frank Comeau stated that the first year of operation of the Pancoe Aquatic
Center was extremely successful and it out performed expectations. The total
attendance was 27,836 a daily average of 416. Frank Comeau points out that
this summer was not a good summer as far as the weather goes. States that
there were some days where there were over 12-1300 people at the pool, there
were also some days that it was pretty sparse because of the weather.
The Dakin Pool attendance was pretty minimal with an average of 15.5 people a
day. They had some nice days where there may have been 50-60 people there,
but overall, it was low.
Comeau continued on to address the revenue. He began with The Pancoe
Aquatic Center; Season passes generated $6370, Rentals $1245, Daily Fees
$41,671, Total of $49,286. Comeau went on to say that the projected revenue
� was $10,000, and that he personally thought that they could get up to around
$20-25,000. Down side, the staff budget was overextended. Had budgeted
• $47,000 and spent around $52,000, maybe even $53,000. Added that the reason
was due to several reasons, one was that the hours ended up being longer than
originally budgeted for, there was more staff used on deck, and there were more
people that signed up for swim lessons and that required more instructors.
Councilor Allen stated that this is wonderful to see, and went on to ask if there
were more swimming instructors hired to meet the needs of the people, did that
pose a problem as far as running the classes within the pool area? Was Parks
and Rec. able to work the classes in successfully?
Frank Comeau replied that the pool was perfect for lessons and that it worked'
out very well.
Councilor Allen continued to ask about combining the pools by putting together
some sort of program that would use both pools to meet the needs. Frank
Comeau stated that it would be difficult because The Pancoe Aquatic Center met
the needs so well. He continued to say that the Dakin Pool has become a
neighborhood pool, and it meets a need in that particular neighborhood. Comeau
, states that The Pancoe Pool is serving the entire city as well as the area. There
were busloads coming form other towns, and it has become an area attraction.
Councilor D'Errico said that he thought Parks and Rec. did very well overall.
Councilor Allen asked if the staff from this year will carry over to next year?
Frank Comeau said that it is hard to say, but that they were extremely happy
• with the stafF this year, and he thought that the new pool itself generated
� interest in the area as far as lifeguards, and other staff. He hopes to retain most
of the stafF for next year.
Councilor Greene verified that the revenue was $49286.80 and the expenses
were around $52000, so there was a little bit of a loss overall.
Frank Comeau agreed and then added that the revenue was almost $39,000
over projection.
Councilor Greene thought that the Season passes would do better than they did.
Frank Comeau pointed out that there were over 450 passes sold, and that they
were only $10.00 per child.
Councilor Greene asked a question that was raised by Mayor Tremble was on the
rental fee structure and the availability of rentals. Greene asked Frank Comeau
to expand on that.
Frank Comeau stated that the only time available for rental was Sunday
- evenings. The pool closed at 5:00 on Sundays so they opened it up for rentals
from 5:30 to 7:30. The only other time that could have been made available was
possibly Saturday evenings, but they thought that as busy as the staff was it
would be difficult to get someone to work Saturday Evenings. The rest of the
week the pool was open evenings from 6:00-8:00 anyway. Time was limited.
Councilor Greene inquired if there were any other time slots where attendance
was light that it could possibly be opened up for further rentals. Frank Comeau
• responded that it would be difficult because there were lessons during the week
from around 9:00 to 12:00 noon. From noon to 1:00 there was adult lap
swimming, which was sparsely attended at times, but other times it was well
attended. At 1:00 opened for general swim until 5:00, then again from 6:00 to
8:00. So there wasn't much extra time available.
Councilor Greene stated that he was just trying to figure out ways to bolster the
bottom line so at least it "breaks even".
Councilor Greene asked if Frank Comeau would explain a little bit about if the
decision is made to keep the Dakin Pool open what will be required to do that.
Frank Comeau mentioned that the pool house/ bathhouse is in bad shape.
Report from Anne Schnieder MMA loss consultant recommended that there either
be some structural work done or preferable demolish it and build a new one. It is
anticipated to cost somewhere around $200,000 to build a new bathhouse.
Councilor Allen inquired about what is required in a bathhouse. Frank Comeau
replied, "restrooms, showers and changing rooms".
Councilor Allen asked if the plumbing was in need of repair or if it was just the
structure of the building itself. Frank Comeau replied that it is the building itself,
which is cracking.
Councilor Allen asked for confirmation that the pool itself is sound and Frank
Comeau confirmed that.
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� Councilor Allen asked if there was a fee to use the Dakin Pool and Frank Comeau
said that, ��no there is no fee".
Councilor Greene asked how the equipment has help up. Frank Comeau said that
overall it is very well, there were a few minor problems that were solved. The
engineering and building was all done well. Will have to see how everything
holds up during the winter.
Councilor Allen asked about getting estimates for just the structure of the
building at the Dakin Pool, and try to keep the building going without investing
that amount of money. Frank Comeau agreed to look into that.
3. Agreement with SESAC to use copyrighted works.
Proposed agreement with SESAC (Society of European Stage Authors and
Composers) will allow the City to use the work of performers including sheet
music, CD's, video, live or recorded music and not be in violation of U.S.
copyright law. The base license fee is $420 and this is similar to agreements the
City has in place with ASCAP and BMI.
• Norm Heitmann stated that though the title insinuates that SESAC is only
European artists, it is not. They have a lot of American artists, such as Kenny
Rogers, Montgomery Gentry and other familiar and unfamiliar names. When
songs are performed by someone at a City owned facility, then the City is
responsible for making sure that it is not in violation of copyright laws and that it
is properly licensed. SESAC is the third big company to own copyright materials
after ASCAP and BMI. The penalty of an honest mistake will cost at least $750 up
to $3,000. A known violation of the copyright law could cost as much as
$150,000. City Solicitor Heitmann recalls two experiences where someone would
go into a bar and would sit and listen for such violations, these violations are the
responsibility of the owner of the facility. While it is a bit of a nuisance, Norm
Heitmann suggests that this license fee be paid for to acquire a license.
D'Errico asked whose budget this would be taken from and Heitmann responded
that he believes in the past it has been from Bass Park since most of the music
events are there, but he added that it should be discussed with City Manager
Barrett to confirm that.
Councilor Greene added that he is familiar with copyright laws within his
profession and noted that it is also quite illegal to have a business that
rebroadcasts a radio station while putting someone on hold on the telephone
without a license to do so. Greene thinks that this issue seems more like a
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� housekeeping issue and asks what is needed from the Council to move to get the
license.
Heitmann responded that he needs a recommendation to go before the Council
and to have this on the agenda.
A motion was made and seconded. This issue will go before the Council.
The Committee adjourned at 5:35 p.m.
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