HomeMy WebLinkAbout2000-03-06 Finance Committee MinutesFinance Committee
Meeting Minutes
March 6, 2000
CoumIkus Attending: Pat Blanchette, Gerry Palmer, Nichi Farnham, Dan
Tremble
Staff Attending:
Edward Barrett, Dave
Pellegrino,
Ron Heller, Bill
taper, Don Winslow
1. Consent Agenda,
a. Workout Agreement - 194 Palm Street, 269 Kenduskeag Avenue,
255 Forest Avenue
b. Workout Agreement - 1408 Hammond Street
Approved.
2. Bids:
a. Six Computers - Police Department
Custom Fit Inc. ($9,348)
Transcript
Dave Pellegrino: Our first item is six computers that we are buying fpr the Police
Department. The recommendation Is to go to the low responsive bidder, Custom
Fit of Chantilly, VA. You'll notice on the bid tabs, it is worth noting that we are
getting a lot of national companies via the Internet. You'll notice that the price
above the COW Governmem Inc., is significantly less than the Custom Ft of
Chantilly and they are also less, If you look at the bottom line, of the more local
outfits. These are all for Acer Computers, actually they are for the Acer 8400,
which is the most recent edition of this computer. COW was not responsive In
that they did not give us the 3 -year warranty that we requested for on site next
day service. They also did not quote on the 21"; one of the six is a 21" monitor
they didn't give us a price on that so that rendered them non-responsive. Had
they done so, they still would have been competitive and I can see that coming.
We do have a local company, getting back to Custom Fit; they have contracted
with a local individual that has provided us very good service for the warranty
part of this purchase. It Is unlikely that the locals can compete with these large
national firms on price. Bill I.aPan is here. This Is a concern of his that he feels
that there Is problem buying computers from the larger national outfits.
Basically, this is the same Ming as buying a computer from Gateway or Dell.
They send it to us and Nen we take it from there. I have no problem
whatsoever with Custom Fit. They were the competi0ve outfit for the laptops
that we bought about a month ago. You'll remember we bought four laptops.
One was for Dm and we received all that equipment within a number of
shipments but still everything was received and acceptable to us. So, the
recommendation is to get the equipment from Custom Fit and have the local
InfcTex, a man named John Wardwell, take care of the maintenance and go
from there.
Councilor Palmer: I'd like to hear more on Bill's point of view on this.
Bill LaPan: I'm looking at a difference of $734.50 and prefer to buy it locally.
You on exert, I feel, more pressure, locally than you can a large company.
Councilor Palmer: Are you familiar with this specific company, Professional
Computer Group? Have you worked with them In the past?
BIII LaPan: Yes, as well as Advanced Data Systems.
Coundlor Tremble: Dave, what's meant by alternate bid, the company out of
Holden? Whafs that mean?
Dave Pellegrino: They were not bidding what was requested. They had a
different monitor I believe is what... We asked for a specific Acer monitor and
they were bidding something else.
Councilor Tremble: What's the difference between non-responsive and an
alternate?
Dave Pellegrino: A non-responsive doesn't meet the speclficaMns. The alternate
meets the specification but is something other than what we asked for.
Councilor Tremble: My comment would be I agree with BIII that I'd Ike to see
this stay local, with the laptop I think there was a little more difference In price
with the laptop at the time. With a company I could get Into my car and not get
to Custom Fit, but you could almost spit on this other company right across the
street. Not just for service, I'd just like to see the almost $10,000 stay In the
local economy and that's why I'm going to support the Professional Computer
Group.
Councilor Blanchette: On your street, I just have a quick question. On Custom
Fit, they didn't break down the 17" monitor and the 21" like the other bids, was
there a reason for that?
Dave Pellegrino: No, we really didn't ask for it. Because one of the monitors was
different. Some people did it different ways, what Custom Fit did is give us a
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lump sum instead of giving us the detail. Some felt that the needed to give us
the detail of what the ane 21" monitor cost because that was the one thing that
set aside all the rest of that as the difference. If they were all 17", it wouldn't
have been a problem. R's a lump sum; the bottom line Is what counts here.
Others also didn't give us the detall.
Ran Heller: Dave, Will, and I met I guess late last week to discuss this Issue. Bill
expressed his preferences for going local even though the price was higher. He
also had some concerns about service. We spent I guess about Ya hour together
discussing this. My position was and the decision that I made at that point and
the reason that were here talking about this as the proposed bid, is we've been
through this hoop several times about to what extent do we go with local
preference. My feeling was that $200 wasn t enough to warrant going with the
local preference although that would be my preference anyway. It seems to me
we've been tem before. Bill had also expressed some concem about the ability
of John Wardwell to adequately service the computers. He already services
computers In Treasury and Assessing and we've had no problems with him at all
in the past. This has been a fairly considered and well -discussed decision. Now,
you can go anyway you want obviously on this, but I just wanted to let you know
that we are not In quite the degree of disarray that Bill showing up here
unannounced tonight might suggest. 1 just wanted to let you know that.
Bill lagan: The only thing I wanted to do was for It to be noted that I usually
Prefer local.
Dave Pellegrino: I understand and sympathire with that local preference
consideration. We've been down this mad many Imes before. We have to keep
in mind that there Is a process here. The integrity of the bidding process Is
something that I have to try to watch at all times. If everything else Is the
same, our purchasing regulations say that we should go with the low, responsive
bidder. That means not giving favoritism to local business. If we start doing this,
we will not get the competition. The last time it happened, I remember it was a
car dealer. The man said "I have no objection at all and I understand completely
about this because this happens a lot with the smaller towns. The only thing I
request that you do is please do not send me anymore bids if you're going to
have local preference." This purchase for Me $9,300 what Councilor Tremble is
talking about is aim a consideration. There is very little profit and we are not
really talking about an awful lot. That murrey will go through him and then out
of town very quickly. There isn't a lot that stays with him. It dcem't do that
much for our local vendors to get these six computers. It's not a major piece of
business. If you wish to do that that certainly is your call and I'm just expressing
what we're trying to do is presem the process and that is low responsive bidder
gets the award.
Councilor Tremble: I appreciate where Dave's coming from. 1 talked to him
shorty after 1 got elected about this Issue of local preference and he gave me a
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stack to read about It. I laked at most of it. I know as the Purchasing Agent
you have certain restraints, but as the City Councilors, we have a little more
leeway and that's why I'm still going to support the local group.
Ron Heller: I absolutely understand what you're saying and in fact, when we go
through the bidding process with banks we try to stay as local as we could. We
do that as a matter of course. Again, Dave has a process that he does these
things by and obviously the Finance Committee can do whatever they choose
and obviously we'll walk away and say okay, now we need to figure out where to
go on the next one of these. But, we were following the process. That's the
point I'd like to make to you.
Councilor Blanchette: Is there some way that we an put something In wrldrag
that says, "if two bids come In and they are equal, but one is say $100 or less
than the lowest one, say B's like $100 higher than the lowest bid, but Its local,
an we do something that says we would go local preference if it was within that
dollar range."
Edward Barrett: Sure you an, but I think you'll still have the same problem as
soon as you start doing that. It would have to be a percentage or a dollar
figure. As soon as you start doing that you may find that non -local vendors will
stop bidding. You also have this Issue that we've discussed before. What do we
consider local? Is it just Bangor? If its Bangor and it has a PO address, does
that count? What kind of presence does R have to have — are we not going to
award bids to Brewer? There are a lot of issues that get wrapped in here. What
we try to do is find a way to squirrel It around within the policy for the local
vendor, we try to do that. Where there Is something you an point to that would
be a difference. But here you are basically getting the same equipment and
they've arranged for local maintenance and warranty, it's hard or us to do that.
You an, if you choose, go to somebody other than the low bidder. In ordain
circumstances that may be appropriate. It does create those kinds of issues.
Councilor Blanchette: I know that because Dave and I have been through this for
a goad number of years and we always have to put it in the back of our minds
that if ward gets out there and word will get out there, real fast, If we start going
with strictly local bidders, it doesn't matter if they are low bid or not, then you
put yourself in a position where the only ones that are bidding are your local
bidders and you're not getting the best bang or you buck. The Purchasing
Department really keeps a tight Ill on how they comply with our bid process and
we may not like d sometimes because Its a lot easier to go with someone local
because you feel better abort it, its a warm fuzzy feeling to give local business
some extra money.
Dave Pellegrino: Other Man today, you folks don't know about these things
because of the quote thing, but this afternoon I was talking to one of the
departments and they had to buy a washer/dryer set up. There was a $10
difference between Bangor and Brewer. I don't have to tell you what we ended
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up doing but we do try to do that and support the locals and I think most of
Mem understand where we are coming from and basically the concept Is when
you do your preference, 1%, $100, whatever, you really are giving one tax payer
a break at the expense of all the others. We've had ridiculous examples of $15
on a vehicle.
Ren Heller: Particularly in a situation like this where service is involved, there are
so many intangible factors as well. Had there been a $10 or $15 or $25
difference, I think the service issue may have come more into play and the
Intangibles might have moved things around, but an almost 3% difference in
cost, it didn't seem compelling enough, quite frankly, to waive the purchasing
rules as we have them right now and that was the bask position I think that we
took.
Councilor Palmer: I think there's a lot to Mose intangibles and I'm hearing the
person that's going to be most directly affected with it that saying that Mere is a
difference and I've got to give that some weight.
Councilor Tremble: I don't consider that a large amount. If this was $500, you
know, I don't know where you draw the line. $500, I wouldn't be talking about
this, my line Is $734.50 tonight. I'm ready to move that we award the bid to the
Professional Computer Group for $9582.50.
Councilor Crowley: Second.
Councilor Blanchette: It's been moved and seconded. Open for discussion.
Ron Heller: I quess I'd like you to hear the argument about the service because I
think It needs to be heard if you're going to base your decision on that. &II why
don't you go ahead and tell them what you have to say.
Bill LaPan: There is no question about B, the Info Tech, Mr. Wardwell's company,
thus far has done a good job. They've done a fine job. Technically, one of the
better -qualified people in this City. What I can foresee is giving too much
business W this individual where service would be a problem. We ran into this a
few years back where an Individual who had his own company, Networks, Etc.,
and unfortunately the more business we gave him, the more computers he had
to service and the service went down hill. They eventually hired another
Individual, but three years to late. I'm just afraid that Hat's what we may be
coming to.
Edward Barrett: I have a real problem with the argument that the guy's given us
goad service, but might not be able to if we give him more business.
Ran Heller: That's the point
Edward Barrett: I have a real problem with that argument. You may want ra
award the bid to a local company, fine. But, I think it's patently unfair and I
haven't been involved in this Issue at all.
Ron Heller: And I apologize for being involved tonight.
Edward Barrett: Patently unfair to say we shouldn't let Mr., whatever his name
is, do this because he's done a good job for us in the past and were going to
give him more business, and he might not be able to do that because he'll be Wo
busy. There's a place of logic there mat doesn't ring bue.
Councilor Famham: We're not contracting with him. He works for another
company.
Edward Barrett: He works for another company - he'll be providing the service.
Councilor Farnham: Custom Fit hires him locally to do their business for us. We
are not contracting with him. It is their job to decide whether or not he needs
more business or they need to get another person locally.
BIII IaPan: The point that I make is really if we are tat able W contact Info Tech,
then Custom Fit is the people we contact, so therefore, It's whoever they put the
pressure on. They don't get paid until they come in and do the service. They
get their money from Custom Fit and where will we be on that service. Anybody
who they currently haw: a maintenance contract with will get preference -
preferential treatment for the City of Bangor. That's the way vendors work.
Councilor Blanchette: I've lost myself. Gerry, go ahead.
Councilor Palmer: Bill, I appreciate your comments about this Chantilly Company.
Can you tell us a little more about your involvement with Professional Computer
Group and why you think they can provide us better service?
Bill taPam PCG or ADS, we've dealt with them for several years, particularly PCG.
A small place, but they do have the technical staff in house. It isn't just a ????
operation.
Councilor Palmer: What about parts? Locally is there something they can draw
from if they need something?
Bill La Pan: Yes, and they deal directly with Acer, as well.
Councilor Tremble: I just wanted to make the point that service wasn't a big
consideration for me, but I think if we were getting poor service from a
company, it would be. I don't think we have been. Service Isn't an issue in this
argument for me.
Councilor Palmer: It is for me and the reason for that is that we've got some
intangibles here and I think that certainly Is an intangible and it only takes one
service all, and $234 seems very cheap.
Dao; Pellegrino: The reason that Info Tech Is the local contactor is because
Custom Fit asked me who do you want to service these computers. We will pick
whomever you tell us to. I picked them because they were the best that we
were receiving at the time. The concept of service is very slight anyway. Most
of the time, the computer ...It Is rare that a computer breaks down. He says I
might get we call a month for a real service problem. The rest of the time it's
usually softwear problems. In the unlikely event that Wardwell isn't available,
what Custom Fit would do Is call me back and say okay, who an do it and Pd
find out who an do it before I'd go bade to them and tell them, well, if he got
hit by a bus and we needed someone else, then you should contract with a
second parry who we would determine. That's basically how that works.
Ran Heller:Wardwell contently services us In Assessing and Treasury and the
service that we've received in both places has been exemplary and on time. The
notion that at some point in the future B may deteriorate just doesnt wash with
me.
Councilor Farnham: Is Info Tech a local company?
Dave Pellegrino: Yes.
Councilor Farnham: So this will really be the only money. The other money that
happens with this Is kind of a pass through thing; no one is really melding any
money off this? There might be a little money to be made by this guy here? A
local company?
Dave Pellegrino: Yes.
Councilor Blanchette: It has been moved and seconded that we go with
Professional Computer Group. All of those in favor?
Councilor Farnham: I want to doubt It.
Councilor Blanchette: Those in favor of going with Professional Computer Group
Indicate by raising your hand? Okay, diose opposed? Ws a tie vote - It goes to
the full Council.
Councilor Palmer: tet me add that there is also an Inverse rule here that the
more times we deny our local people, I think when we want service from local
people, ICs not going to be necessarily forthcoming not matter what kind of great
deals we get from Chantilly lace or wherever they come from.
Councilor Famham: We are getting service from the local people. That's the key
here. Chantilly is not serving us.
Councilor Palmer: I understand. That's not my point at all. My point is that when
you fail to support your local people, In terms of hardware and other things, then
you are going to have a harder time getting that service you are looking for
down the road.
Councilor Blanchette: I don't necessarily agree with that because I think the
integrity of our purchasing department is above reproach and I think all of the
bidders out there, locally and nationwide understand that. We have a policy that
we go if they comply with low bidder. We have not changed our policy to go
with local low bidder and we just talked about It for a number of reasons. It
would be great if we could. I have a problem. We've worked too long and too
hard to build the integrity of our purchasing department so that its above board
and everybody feels comfortable dealing with our purchasing department. Not
just Dave Pellegrino, he's just he mechanic that gets everything W work down
there. We have a good reputation countrywide and I don't want to put that in
jeopardy and I think we can go a long way if we start tinkering. So, this will go
to the full Council and we on all fight our fight there and find out whats going
on.
Councilor Palmer: I have absolutely, no problem with the purchasing department.
That was not part of my comments.
b. Bomb Suit and Helmet - Police Decartment
Med-Eng Systems Inc. ($14,412)
The recommendation from staff is m not go with the low bidder. Chief Winslow
explained that Med-Eng Systems Inc., manufactures the suit that the bomb
technicians are trained with and is widely used throughout the United States.
Triple Nickel Tactical Supply is unknown to staff. The quality of the suit
manufactured by them is unknown. $12,000 was appropriated fmm forfeiture
money for this purchase. The bid came back higher than the $12,000 because
at the time of the request, Med-Eng had a level seven wit which the bomb team
was comfortable with and recommended however they have since come out with
a level eight. There is enough money in the forfeiture account for the additional
$2,412 needed. Staff recommends purchasing the new suit. Approved staff
C. Niaht Vision Goomes & Weauon Siohts
N.A.I.T. ($14,780)
The recommendation is to purchase from N.A.I.T. This purchase would be for 2
hand-held sights and two to be mounted on the sniper rifles. Approved staff
recommendation.
3. A 5000 from the Poli
A=01 for Purchase of New Unmarked Veh'tles
The forfeiture team recommended the purchase of three unmarked vehicles for
the Criminal Investigation Division. One of the vehicles would replace a 1992
Buick that has been retired and another would replace a 1994 Jeep that has
170,000 miles on it and needs significant work. A third vehicle was
recommended because of the community policing positions approved under the
COPS program. Staff recommendation is to purchase program vehicles.
Approved.
4. QrJor, AuthodAno Appircrual of Enoineering Ocintract with Edwards antl
Kdcw r AIP 27 Installation of Surface Movement and Guidance Control
System 1-1ohdria. Reconstruct" and Install Hiah M
Ughtino (Phase HD
This current contract is far engineering services for AIP 27 - installation of
surface movement and guidance control system Ighbrg, reconstmcti of
badway "B" and '7" and Installation of high mast lighting (Phase III). The
project is 95% funded through Federal and State grants. Approved
recommendation to Council.
With no further business to discuss, the meeting adjourned.