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HomeMy WebLinkAbout2000-03-06 Finance Committee MinutesFinance Committee Meeting Minutes March 6, 2000 CoumIkus Attending: Pat Blanchette, Gerry Palmer, Nichi Farnham, Dan Tremble Staff Attending: Edward Barrett, Dave Pellegrino, Ron Heller, Bill taper, Don Winslow 1. Consent Agenda, a. Workout Agreement - 194 Palm Street, 269 Kenduskeag Avenue, 255 Forest Avenue b. Workout Agreement - 1408 Hammond Street Approved. 2. Bids: a. Six Computers - Police Department Custom Fit Inc. ($9,348) Transcript Dave Pellegrino: Our first item is six computers that we are buying fpr the Police Department. The recommendation Is to go to the low responsive bidder, Custom Fit of Chantilly, VA. You'll notice on the bid tabs, it is worth noting that we are getting a lot of national companies via the Internet. You'll notice that the price above the COW Governmem Inc., is significantly less than the Custom Ft of Chantilly and they are also less, If you look at the bottom line, of the more local outfits. These are all for Acer Computers, actually they are for the Acer 8400, which is the most recent edition of this computer. COW was not responsive In that they did not give us the 3 -year warranty that we requested for on site next day service. They also did not quote on the 21"; one of the six is a 21" monitor they didn't give us a price on that so that rendered them non-responsive. Had they done so, they still would have been competitive and I can see that coming. We do have a local company, getting back to Custom Fit; they have contracted with a local individual that has provided us very good service for the warranty part of this purchase. It Is unlikely that the locals can compete with these large national firms on price. Bill I.aPan is here. This Is a concern of his that he feels that there Is problem buying computers from the larger national outfits. Basically, this is the same Ming as buying a computer from Gateway or Dell. They send it to us and Nen we take it from there. I have no problem whatsoever with Custom Fit. They were the competi0ve outfit for the laptops that we bought about a month ago. You'll remember we bought four laptops. One was for Dm and we received all that equipment within a number of shipments but still everything was received and acceptable to us. So, the recommendation is to get the equipment from Custom Fit and have the local InfcTex, a man named John Wardwell, take care of the maintenance and go from there. Councilor Palmer: I'd like to hear more on Bill's point of view on this. Bill LaPan: I'm looking at a difference of $734.50 and prefer to buy it locally. You on exert, I feel, more pressure, locally than you can a large company. Councilor Palmer: Are you familiar with this specific company, Professional Computer Group? Have you worked with them In the past? BIII LaPan: Yes, as well as Advanced Data Systems. Coundlor Tremble: Dave, what's meant by alternate bid, the company out of Holden? Whafs that mean? Dave Pellegrino: They were not bidding what was requested. They had a different monitor I believe is what... We asked for a specific Acer monitor and they were bidding something else. Councilor Tremble: What's the difference between non-responsive and an alternate? Dave Pellegrino: A non-responsive doesn't meet the speclficaMns. The alternate meets the specification but is something other than what we asked for. Councilor Tremble: My comment would be I agree with BIII that I'd Ike to see this stay local, with the laptop I think there was a little more difference In price with the laptop at the time. With a company I could get Into my car and not get to Custom Fit, but you could almost spit on this other company right across the street. Not just for service, I'd just like to see the almost $10,000 stay In the local economy and that's why I'm going to support the Professional Computer Group. Councilor Blanchette: On your street, I just have a quick question. On Custom Fit, they didn't break down the 17" monitor and the 21" like the other bids, was there a reason for that? Dave Pellegrino: No, we really didn't ask for it. Because one of the monitors was different. Some people did it different ways, what Custom Fit did is give us a 2 lump sum instead of giving us the detail. Some felt that the needed to give us the detail of what the ane 21" monitor cost because that was the one thing that set aside all the rest of that as the difference. If they were all 17", it wouldn't have been a problem. R's a lump sum; the bottom line Is what counts here. Others also didn't give us the detall. Ran Heller: Dave, Will, and I met I guess late last week to discuss this Issue. Bill expressed his preferences for going local even though the price was higher. He also had some concerns about service. We spent I guess about Ya hour together discussing this. My position was and the decision that I made at that point and the reason that were here talking about this as the proposed bid, is we've been through this hoop several times about to what extent do we go with local preference. My feeling was that $200 wasn t enough to warrant going with the local preference although that would be my preference anyway. It seems to me we've been tem before. Bill had also expressed some concem about the ability of John Wardwell to adequately service the computers. He already services computers In Treasury and Assessing and we've had no problems with him at all in the past. This has been a fairly considered and well -discussed decision. Now, you can go anyway you want obviously on this, but I just wanted to let you know that we are not In quite the degree of disarray that Bill showing up here unannounced tonight might suggest. 1 just wanted to let you know that. Bill lagan: The only thing I wanted to do was for It to be noted that I usually Prefer local. Dave Pellegrino: I understand and sympathire with that local preference consideration. We've been down this mad many Imes before. We have to keep in mind that there Is a process here. The integrity of the bidding process Is something that I have to try to watch at all times. If everything else Is the same, our purchasing regulations say that we should go with the low, responsive bidder. That means not giving favoritism to local business. If we start doing this, we will not get the competition. The last time it happened, I remember it was a car dealer. The man said "I have no objection at all and I understand completely about this because this happens a lot with the smaller towns. The only thing I request that you do is please do not send me anymore bids if you're going to have local preference." This purchase for Me $9,300 what Councilor Tremble is talking about is aim a consideration. There is very little profit and we are not really talking about an awful lot. That murrey will go through him and then out of town very quickly. There isn't a lot that stays with him. It dcem't do that much for our local vendors to get these six computers. It's not a major piece of business. If you wish to do that that certainly is your call and I'm just expressing what we're trying to do is presem the process and that is low responsive bidder gets the award. Councilor Tremble: I appreciate where Dave's coming from. 1 talked to him shorty after 1 got elected about this Issue of local preference and he gave me a 3 stack to read about It. I laked at most of it. I know as the Purchasing Agent you have certain restraints, but as the City Councilors, we have a little more leeway and that's why I'm still going to support the local group. Ron Heller: I absolutely understand what you're saying and in fact, when we go through the bidding process with banks we try to stay as local as we could. We do that as a matter of course. Again, Dave has a process that he does these things by and obviously the Finance Committee can do whatever they choose and obviously we'll walk away and say okay, now we need to figure out where to go on the next one of these. But, we were following the process. That's the point I'd like to make to you. Councilor Blanchette: Is there some way that we an put something In wrldrag that says, "if two bids come In and they are equal, but one is say $100 or less than the lowest one, say B's like $100 higher than the lowest bid, but Its local, an we do something that says we would go local preference if it was within that dollar range." Edward Barrett: Sure you an, but I think you'll still have the same problem as soon as you start doing that. It would have to be a percentage or a dollar figure. As soon as you start doing that you may find that non -local vendors will stop bidding. You also have this Issue that we've discussed before. What do we consider local? Is it just Bangor? If its Bangor and it has a PO address, does that count? What kind of presence does R have to have — are we not going to award bids to Brewer? There are a lot of issues that get wrapped in here. What we try to do is find a way to squirrel It around within the policy for the local vendor, we try to do that. Where there Is something you an point to that would be a difference. But here you are basically getting the same equipment and they've arranged for local maintenance and warranty, it's hard or us to do that. You an, if you choose, go to somebody other than the low bidder. In ordain circumstances that may be appropriate. It does create those kinds of issues. Councilor Blanchette: I know that because Dave and I have been through this for a goad number of years and we always have to put it in the back of our minds that if ward gets out there and word will get out there, real fast, If we start going with strictly local bidders, it doesn't matter if they are low bid or not, then you put yourself in a position where the only ones that are bidding are your local bidders and you're not getting the best bang or you buck. The Purchasing Department really keeps a tight Ill on how they comply with our bid process and we may not like d sometimes because Its a lot easier to go with someone local because you feel better abort it, its a warm fuzzy feeling to give local business some extra money. Dave Pellegrino: Other Man today, you folks don't know about these things because of the quote thing, but this afternoon I was talking to one of the departments and they had to buy a washer/dryer set up. There was a $10 difference between Bangor and Brewer. I don't have to tell you what we ended 4 up doing but we do try to do that and support the locals and I think most of Mem understand where we are coming from and basically the concept Is when you do your preference, 1%, $100, whatever, you really are giving one tax payer a break at the expense of all the others. We've had ridiculous examples of $15 on a vehicle. Ren Heller: Particularly in a situation like this where service is involved, there are so many intangible factors as well. Had there been a $10 or $15 or $25 difference, I think the service issue may have come more into play and the Intangibles might have moved things around, but an almost 3% difference in cost, it didn't seem compelling enough, quite frankly, to waive the purchasing rules as we have them right now and that was the bask position I think that we took. Councilor Palmer: I think there's a lot to Mose intangibles and I'm hearing the person that's going to be most directly affected with it that saying that Mere is a difference and I've got to give that some weight. Councilor Tremble: I don't consider that a large amount. If this was $500, you know, I don't know where you draw the line. $500, I wouldn't be talking about this, my line Is $734.50 tonight. I'm ready to move that we award the bid to the Professional Computer Group for $9582.50. Councilor Crowley: Second. Councilor Blanchette: It's been moved and seconded. Open for discussion. Ron Heller: I quess I'd like you to hear the argument about the service because I think It needs to be heard if you're going to base your decision on that. &II why don't you go ahead and tell them what you have to say. Bill LaPan: There is no question about B, the Info Tech, Mr. Wardwell's company, thus far has done a good job. They've done a fine job. Technically, one of the better -qualified people in this City. What I can foresee is giving too much business W this individual where service would be a problem. We ran into this a few years back where an Individual who had his own company, Networks, Etc., and unfortunately the more business we gave him, the more computers he had to service and the service went down hill. They eventually hired another Individual, but three years to late. I'm just afraid that Hat's what we may be coming to. Edward Barrett: I have a real problem with the argument that the guy's given us goad service, but might not be able to if we give him more business. Ran Heller: That's the point Edward Barrett: I have a real problem with that argument. You may want ra award the bid to a local company, fine. But, I think it's patently unfair and I haven't been involved in this Issue at all. Ron Heller: And I apologize for being involved tonight. Edward Barrett: Patently unfair to say we shouldn't let Mr., whatever his name is, do this because he's done a good job for us in the past and were going to give him more business, and he might not be able to do that because he'll be Wo busy. There's a place of logic there mat doesn't ring bue. Councilor Famham: We're not contracting with him. He works for another company. Edward Barrett: He works for another company - he'll be providing the service. Councilor Farnham: Custom Fit hires him locally to do their business for us. We are not contracting with him. It is their job to decide whether or not he needs more business or they need to get another person locally. BIII IaPan: The point that I make is really if we are tat able W contact Info Tech, then Custom Fit is the people we contact, so therefore, It's whoever they put the pressure on. They don't get paid until they come in and do the service. They get their money from Custom Fit and where will we be on that service. Anybody who they currently haw: a maintenance contract with will get preference - preferential treatment for the City of Bangor. That's the way vendors work. Councilor Blanchette: I've lost myself. Gerry, go ahead. Councilor Palmer: Bill, I appreciate your comments about this Chantilly Company. Can you tell us a little more about your involvement with Professional Computer Group and why you think they can provide us better service? Bill taPam PCG or ADS, we've dealt with them for several years, particularly PCG. A small place, but they do have the technical staff in house. It isn't just a ???? operation. Councilor Palmer: What about parts? Locally is there something they can draw from if they need something? Bill La Pan: Yes, and they deal directly with Acer, as well. Councilor Tremble: I just wanted to make the point that service wasn't a big consideration for me, but I think if we were getting poor service from a company, it would be. I don't think we have been. Service Isn't an issue in this argument for me. Councilor Palmer: It is for me and the reason for that is that we've got some intangibles here and I think that certainly Is an intangible and it only takes one service all, and $234 seems very cheap. Dao; Pellegrino: The reason that Info Tech Is the local contactor is because Custom Fit asked me who do you want to service these computers. We will pick whomever you tell us to. I picked them because they were the best that we were receiving at the time. The concept of service is very slight anyway. Most of the time, the computer ...It Is rare that a computer breaks down. He says I might get we call a month for a real service problem. The rest of the time it's usually softwear problems. In the unlikely event that Wardwell isn't available, what Custom Fit would do Is call me back and say okay, who an do it and Pd find out who an do it before I'd go bade to them and tell them, well, if he got hit by a bus and we needed someone else, then you should contract with a second parry who we would determine. That's basically how that works. Ran Heller:Wardwell contently services us In Assessing and Treasury and the service that we've received in both places has been exemplary and on time. The notion that at some point in the future B may deteriorate just doesnt wash with me. Councilor Farnham: Is Info Tech a local company? Dave Pellegrino: Yes. Councilor Farnham: So this will really be the only money. The other money that happens with this Is kind of a pass through thing; no one is really melding any money off this? There might be a little money to be made by this guy here? A local company? Dave Pellegrino: Yes. Councilor Blanchette: It has been moved and seconded that we go with Professional Computer Group. All of those in favor? Councilor Farnham: I want to doubt It. Councilor Blanchette: Those in favor of going with Professional Computer Group Indicate by raising your hand? Okay, diose opposed? Ws a tie vote - It goes to the full Council. Councilor Palmer: tet me add that there is also an Inverse rule here that the more times we deny our local people, I think when we want service from local people, ICs not going to be necessarily forthcoming not matter what kind of great deals we get from Chantilly lace or wherever they come from. Councilor Famham: We are getting service from the local people. That's the key here. Chantilly is not serving us. Councilor Palmer: I understand. That's not my point at all. My point is that when you fail to support your local people, In terms of hardware and other things, then you are going to have a harder time getting that service you are looking for down the road. Councilor Blanchette: I don't necessarily agree with that because I think the integrity of our purchasing department is above reproach and I think all of the bidders out there, locally and nationwide understand that. We have a policy that we go if they comply with low bidder. We have not changed our policy to go with local low bidder and we just talked about It for a number of reasons. It would be great if we could. I have a problem. We've worked too long and too hard to build the integrity of our purchasing department so that its above board and everybody feels comfortable dealing with our purchasing department. Not just Dave Pellegrino, he's just he mechanic that gets everything W work down there. We have a good reputation countrywide and I don't want to put that in jeopardy and I think we can go a long way if we start tinkering. So, this will go to the full Council and we on all fight our fight there and find out whats going on. Councilor Palmer: I have absolutely, no problem with the purchasing department. That was not part of my comments. b. Bomb Suit and Helmet - Police Decartment Med-Eng Systems Inc. ($14,412) The recommendation from staff is m not go with the low bidder. Chief Winslow explained that Med-Eng Systems Inc., manufactures the suit that the bomb technicians are trained with and is widely used throughout the United States. Triple Nickel Tactical Supply is unknown to staff. The quality of the suit manufactured by them is unknown. $12,000 was appropriated fmm forfeiture money for this purchase. The bid came back higher than the $12,000 because at the time of the request, Med-Eng had a level seven wit which the bomb team was comfortable with and recommended however they have since come out with a level eight. There is enough money in the forfeiture account for the additional $2,412 needed. Staff recommends purchasing the new suit. Approved staff C. Niaht Vision Goomes & Weauon Siohts N.A.I.T. ($14,780) The recommendation is to purchase from N.A.I.T. This purchase would be for 2 hand-held sights and two to be mounted on the sniper rifles. Approved staff recommendation. 3. A 5000 from the Poli A=01 for Purchase of New Unmarked Veh'tles The forfeiture team recommended the purchase of three unmarked vehicles for the Criminal Investigation Division. One of the vehicles would replace a 1992 Buick that has been retired and another would replace a 1994 Jeep that has 170,000 miles on it and needs significant work. A third vehicle was recommended because of the community policing positions approved under the COPS program. Staff recommendation is to purchase program vehicles. Approved. 4. QrJor, AuthodAno Appircrual of Enoineering Ocintract with Edwards antl Kdcw r AIP 27 Installation of Surface Movement and Guidance Control System 1-1ohdria. Reconstruct" and Install Hiah M Ughtino (Phase HD This current contract is far engineering services for AIP 27 - installation of surface movement and guidance control system Ighbrg, reconstmcti of badway "B" and '7" and Installation of high mast lighting (Phase III). The project is 95% funded through Federal and State grants. Approved recommendation to Council. With no further business to discuss, the meeting adjourned.